User talk:Defiant Elements
socking Although I admire your admitting to the situation instead of pulling a Stabber, I an nonetheless disappointed in you. What reason do you have for socking, anyway? (T/ ) 03:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC) :I enjoy answering questions not directed to me. Mostly so he could be blunt(er) without being himself, iirc. :] 04:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC) :A sockpuppet can be harmless - useful at times. Some things cannot be said because of some personal or background emotion/likes/dislikes. An "old hand" coming back to comment on what could be described as controversial discussions would have those effects when commenting. Sometimes it requires a new pseudonym to just start over, without stigmas or thoughts about the past. While I can't speak for Defiant (and no, I'm not him either...), I can understand (but probably not articulate) his reasons. Even you said that sockpuppets can be harmless, Entropy, and it certainly was in this case. --[[User:R.Phalange|'Dr' R. Phalange]] 10:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC) :Maui and Phalange are more or less correct. The persona I've cultivated on this account, which spans three wikis, is rather unsuited to just having a bit of fun on User talk pages, etc. I made a sockpuppet because I wanted a bit more attitudinal latitude. [[user:Defiant Elements|'*Defiant Elements*']] ''+talk'' 13:30, 11 June 2008 (UTC) ::"A bit of fun" and "attitudinal latitude", eh? I would expect more from an old hand I once respected for his integrity, and an administrator (albeit on other wikis) on top of that. I don't care about sockpuppets until they cause trouble/drama - which you have, rightly or wrongly. (T/ ) 20:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC) ::: “A bit of fun” and “attitudinal latitude”, eh? I would expect more from an old hand I once respected for his integrity, and an administrator (albeit on other wikis) on top of that. :::In some ways, I think, that sums up why I created Banjthulu. "Defiant Elements" is largely dead on this Wiki and I wanted a fresh start. I came back (both as Defiant Elements and Banjthulu) because I still feel somehow connected to this community -- even if the community has largely changed since my day. “Defiant Elements” is merely a persona, one which I felt was not wholly appropriate for the role I wished to play, even if that role is merely chatting with User:Maui. To be honest, it felt nice simply being able to chat with other users without any pretense arising from my status as an “old hand.” :::In various discussions on Banjthulu’s talk page and elsewhere, a distinction was drawn between a sockpuppet account and a new account for a returning user. By strict definition, there’s really no difference between the two as near as I can tell. Perhaps the distinction lies in the fact that the primary account of the “returning user” continues to appear inactive, whereas I had recently stated that my primary account was active. Either way, I firmly intended that Banjthulu would be my new primary persona on GuildWiki, if that makes any sense. Yes, I did edit pages as Defiant Elements after I created Banjthulu, but I tried to do so only when I felt that it the sentiment I wished to express was only in keeping with my Defiant Elements persona. :::Looking at the various Wikipedia definitions for a sock puppet, I cannot help but feel that Banjthulu doesn’t quite fit the bill. Yes, it was a deception in so far as I made Banjthulu appear to be a new user when, in fact, he was not -- although, I didn’t really go to great lengths to do that either -- but, in my own mind at least, I didn’t feel that it was a deception because, in effect, Banjthulu was a new user. He was a “new me,” intended to be wholly separate, one without regard for the other. :::I cannot help but see the irony in that, had I not made it quite so clear that Banjthulu was the account of an “old hand” -- distinction between returning user and sockpuppet not withstanding -- there would have been no drama. Deception was the more prudent course in retrospect (well… not creating the sockpuppet in the first place would have been even more prudent, but…). :::Regarding any trouble that may have been caused by Banjthulu’s edits. First off, persona distinctions aside, I stand by my arguments in favor of Felix’s banning as being non-biased and will continue to do so. To be honest, while I may have edited as Banjthulu with a somewhat different attitude, the content and personality that serve as the underpinnings for my comments were really no different than when I edited as Defiant Elements -- which explains why a number of users who know me well were able to immediately discern that Banjthulu was my sockpuppet. If I caused some other trouble of which I’m not aware at the moment, please link me to the appropriate edit(s). :::As far as my integrity goes, I will admit that that comment stings because I have nothing but respect for you. On the other hand, I personally tend to be believe (setting aside for a moment the question of whether I am merely rationalizing my own misdeed) that the intent outweighs the result. The spirit of the anti-sockpuppet “policy” lies in the potential for the abuse of sockpuppets, it is not, as far as I’m aware, an attempt to prevent users who wish to edit with some level of anonymity -- yes, I could have edited as an anon, but it’s generally harder to establish solid community ties as an admin, examples to the contrary notwithstanding. “Defiant Elements” has no formal responsibilities on GuildWiki; however, there is a certain gravitas attached to the name itself; I desired the freedom to edit without the burden of that name. :::Anywho, I’ve become much too personally involved as far as Felix is concerned. I’d like to think (if nothing else) that I would have responded in the same fashion to anyone who had made a similar comment, but I can’t say that with any certainty -- at least not without lying to myself. Yes, I thought that Felix was something of a prick well before he made that comment, but... that comment truly did disgust me. On the other hand, I fear that part of my disgust lies in the fact that I was blinded to the possibility that Felix might be complementing you in some fashion rather than insulting you. I haven’t yet decided whether that bias is the result of my own interactions with him, the interactions I’ve seen between the two of you, or some combination, but there was undoubtedly some element of bias I suppose. I doubt I’ll ever be ascertain with anything approaching certainty the true motive behind my comment, but I’ve been doing my best to try. Regardless, it’s a moot point because any future interaction I might have with Felix is undoubtedly tainted at this point (which is why I have every intention of never speaking with him again). :::Unfortunately, this fiasco has undoubtedly tainted any further contribution I make to this Wiki, so, with the possible exception of my entry to Ereanor’s contest and perhaps a talk page here or there *cough* User talk:Maui*cough*, I think it’s best if I once again withdraw myself from this wiki (although on far worse terms this time around I fear). :::Unfortunately, I’m tired and I’m having more and more trouble putting together coherent thoughts, so I’m afraid that’s gonna have to be it for me for now. And again, I do realize that I’m biased toward myself, but I’m doing my best to analyze my own actions as thoroughly as possible. :::P.S. Please excuse any syntactical mistakes and general incoherence, I'm tired and I wrote this rather hastily. [[user:Defiant Elements|'*Defiant Elements*']] ''+talk'' 21:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC)